*** PREFACE *** [29 October 2020, 23:30 CET]
Tine: ‘[Watching ↗︎ I May Destroy You] / I will try to sleep early for once’
Inish: ‘It is good you are taking care’
[30 October 2020, 01:40 CET]
T: ‘I have an idea for conversation / tell later, but how to combine you, me > conversation + text and music all-in-1. I hope it resonates. I includes playlist × 2 / Mac or PC × 2 / headset × 2 / a chat programme / a space — and something to drink [↗︎ Beaming Face with Smiling Eyes] — And most importantly: bring at least one carnation* [Drawing ˄]’
I: ‘Hahahaha / Fabulous / Just gorgeous’
T: ‘Or even better: Create a mix tape together for approximately 60 minutes — a soundtrack, an interactive text!’ [heart response]
I: ‘I can bring a ↗︎ MIDI to the spot / I can learn ↗︎ Traktor, too — no stress’
T: ‘Can we actually manage this while we are chatting …?’
I: ‘Can I call you?’
T. ‘No! Not now. I am trying to sleep. But I will in any case prepare 4–5–6–7 tracks’
I: ‘Nooooo, I meant instead of chatting’
T: ‘Nonono. We have to sit in the same room, that is the whole point of the idea. We talk all the time; this is a reversed strategy’
I: ‘I suspected so’
T: ‘— An experiment! / Corona demonstration, a demo of a new mode of intimacy’
I: ‘I think we chat a lot, too / Much more than I usually do / Anyway / Let me sleep on it’
T: ‘Sleep’
I: ‘Yes’
T: ‘It does not work very well / And at least one carnation each!! / [↗︎ Beaming Face with Smiling Eyes] [heart response]
I: ‘THAT I can do / [cat using laptop GIF]’ [thumbs up response]
T: ‘That is a start / It will be hell to transcribe, so cool to be in an 1 h bubble 50 cm from each other hahaha / Jaja / [↗︎ Waving Hand] / Good night’
I: ‘Sleep tight’ [heart response] [02:26 CET]
- * Carnations is an old code for gayness, British, apparently. ‘↗︎ Green carnation: In 19th-century England, green indicated homosexual affiliations. Victorian gay men would often pin a green carnation on their lapel as popularized by openly gay author Oscar Wilde, who often wore one on his lapel.’ This link to carnation also got a deep personal reference to the so called snake place, ↗︎ Hoggorm, becoming the Bergen karma* crib. Two years ago, October and November 2018, ↗︎ several mini essays, later to become↗︎ a tiny green book, were written based on conversations here. Then with dear friend , but natural wine and ‘best pizza in town’ never goes out of date. Tonight, it is November and lockdown 2020 volume 2. I was recently kicked out of my room (in the same block as the snake place) as the building became a quarantine zone. The traffic lights are out of order. Wet asphalt, dark. Inish and I agreed on trying out the model above, see how it goes. And I have the carnations. My part of the deal. Even green ones. But Inish beat me in style; deep greyish violet that look like they are made of velvet raw silk. Two of them, with long, elegant stems. I cut mine. They became not only pale in comparison, but also shorter.
No further explanation needed. Inish ˄
*** HOGGORM, BERGEN *** [5 November 2020, 19:27 CET]
Tine: Hey Inish — ready?
Inish: Yes. First track out.
- ↗︎ Sleep Ballade↗︎ , Dasha Rush (4:09 min; 2015)
T: Imagine I am an alien. Who are you?
I: Also an alien.
T: In what sense?
- — Nice track by the way.
I: First of all, we are all in space.
T: I agree. You are quite special.
I: We both are. I guess, if we all are in space as aliens to each other, ‘alienation’ as such would not really be a thing either.
- Cannot wait to show you the track I dreamt about — it kept me awake for hours. But first this one, by the same amazing producer: ↗︎ Antares↗︎ , Dasha Rush (4:06 min; 2015)
T: But back to Bergen. Location, location. We are at Hoggorm. The so-called snake place.
- And my turn, a true favourite. So sweet and light, yet these really heavy bass lines. The structure and curves of that one always gives me nice chills … ↗︎ Crystal Confessions↗︎ , Artefakt (7:37 min; 2019)
I: [Snake icon; purple heart]
T: This is one of my — our? — fave places here, and the first I got to know when first visiting Bergen two years ago looking for natural wine … it was rather new at that time. I went with Tony [Cokes] directly from an opening in Oslo to Bergen, and we escaped here, enjoyed wine, then pizza, and discussed music, gender … we named the place after the logo. [But after all it is an ‘orm’, Norwegian for worm, but it looks like a snake.] — Put on CC now! We need to be synchronised. This is a weird way of communication.
I: — Wow, so strange. It is the first place I got to know two years ago, coming in from Berlin, too. — Oki, CC.
T: And at the moment we are here again, both of us listening to the same music, with a Fentimans ginger ale each, and coffee — sitting in the same place, with the wine, pizzas … hot ladies in the bar … (Can I say that?) It actually became sort of ‘a thing’; many of the karma* people go here. When in Bergen, of course.
I: Hahaha, okay.
T: Hoggorm is the base. ANYWAY … — Alienness. Otherness.
I: Ooo, is there more? Aliens? Karma* people?
T: Karma-pre-Karmaklubb*; the closest, living room friends. You are karma, too … no?
I: Yes.
T: But location and context: This time I am stuck in Bergen longer because of corona … love, perhaps … art, ↗︎ Daniel and ↗︎ 71BODIES’ programme in October, ↗︎ Konsept X, ↗︎ Eva, ↗︎ Scott … beautiful people leading to other beautiful people. I have no idea when I first heard about you. Then you managed to hook me in when I was out of the deadline working cell, walking past Kafé Spesial, on my way to cheap and nice pizza. Saw the short hair. Recognised you although we have never met. (More music, Inish! Your turn.)
I: Hahaha. Me too, and I even said ‘hi’ — I never do or mostly feel too shy to reach out. With you I never felt shy! [heart response]
- ↗︎ Sikker↗︎ , Stephanie Sykes (6:10; 2018)
T: Keeping one meter distance, though. Most of the time.
- What is the thing about this song — short anecdote?
- I: This is one of my favourite tracks right now. Cannot wait to play it next week, agh. I cannot really explain this song, it is one of those that stays with me. It has a lot of tension without making tense.
- T: Dark zombie basement dark. Hedonistic 1995 sci-fi we-imagine-2020-movie. Concrete, steel … darkness. Neon.
- I: Haha, always harder. But lately I have been softer. Still quite brutal, tho. Hard, but never hitting the ground.
- T: — The next in que: This is MY Berlin link. I went to Berlin, did projects 10–12 years ago. Probably influenced my queerness too … this artist and person, ↗︎ IAMX, the early stuff … this was around 15 years ago. That was my entrance to Berlin, indirectly to tech, ↗︎ Berghain — prob karma*, too, following those tracks … ↗︎ Nightlife↗︎ , IAMX (5:02 min; 2006) — This stuff goes deep. My fave is ↗︎ Sailor, though, but I chose this one mostly for you. As it is harder, and because of our link to electronic music, clubbing, queerness. So raw.
T: How did you start listening to Techno? Why, and when?
I: Amazing question.
T: — Music as an archetype, hahaha.
I: I do not know what came first, Techno or the club …
T: Please, go on. I must go to the bathroom.
- Now Nightlife. Are we synchronised? 10 sec …
- I: 1:06 minutes.
I: I started quite lightly with Techno about 5 years ago and see now that I probably have a very typical listening history going back to when I started clubbing, and from softer to harder — although it has been parallel with Dark Wave legends such as ↗︎ Lebanon Hanover and ↗︎ Boy Harsher. I guess the common ground is emotionally intense and further on completely mental.
- ↗︎ Always Then↗︎ , The KVB (4:11 min; 2012). This has something similar to Nightlife.
- T: Those stamping feet … but playful. I like.
T: After all, Techno sort of acts as a thread in what you do in daily life; what you make, listen and dance to, and DJ. But you tend to go dark. Much darker and harder, colder, and more industrial than what I am used to … sort of enjoy. Dungeonish. So, I wonder what it represents to you emotionally, what kind of ‘shape’ does it have …?
I: Techno has so many shapes to me, in elements I feel like it manages to touch my whole emotional spectrum —
T: — DUNGEON(IN)ISH.
I: Actually, I cannot know my spectrum — I think it is eternal in some way. But there is always some element in a track that can reflect different aspects of it.
- T: OK, me next. This is very different, and we can return to the harder stuff after, but we just have to listen to it: ↗︎ Time Will Tell↗︎ , Blood Orange (5:07 min; 2013). It has become my Bergen song as it just pops up everywhere, also in what I have been watching, like beautiful ↗︎ We Are Who We Are … I liked the song from before, and now it seems to be sort of a theme song in this series that sort of rescued me through the shitty stuff happening here; all its strangeness: ‘we are who we are’ got a new meaning in these limbo days …
- I: Absolutely. A soft Cold Wave detour.
I: The next track that comes to my mind is ↗︎ Our Darkness↗︎ , Anne Clark (5:24 min; orig. 1984). It is a track that definitely got me onto a journey.
T: How does it look? Where does it lead?
I: It led me to this moment where I felt like I have been narrated. I can get that sensation sometimes.
T: By whom?
I: Myself …
T: Speaking about alien …
I: Sometimes one can listen to a track, and then again but with a different emotional spectrum or depth. Like a colouring book where you did not have enough colours to fully explain. [heart response]
T: The song is rather dramatic, though.
I: Our Darkness? It is a part of me, and probably so many others. Anne Clark definitely hit some spots where I did not understand but felt connected, and then when I understood more, it made a sad situation beautiful.
- T: Since we are on the dark side, but tracks that make things feel lighter: This is one that has been rolling a lot the last years. Next up: ↗︎ Presence Of Another Man↗︎ , Penner+Muder (7:45 min; 2012) Really simple, but rough.
- I: I have a fun one coming up after: ↗︎ What You Do with What You Have↗︎ , Blawan (6:32 min; 2011). But let us see if I am still feeling it after listening to what you just sent.
- T: Right. First Presence Of Another Man.
T: But, hey: Why do we sit here; the reader does not know much. Perhaps we would have met anyway, who knows.
I: I think so. We even came from ↗︎ the same photographer that day.
T: But ↗︎ SAGA [Sexuality and Gender Acceptance] and clubbing is the first link.
I: Hmm, yes, and probably ↗︎ QT in Berlin, too. Which was, I guess, something more like a concept focusing on representation of QTPOC in the clubbing scene as well as ‘↗︎ safer spacing’.
— When I came to Bergen, I felt like there was something missing. I was like: ‘Where are all my queers at????’ So, after trying to understand what Bergen was from a queer perspective (with my very Berlin queer mind), I assembled some queer and trans people in here.
— What was the first club you visited?
T: Well, Berlin and clubbing was way beyond me deliberately entering ‘queer places’ … I did not even search, at that time … but ↗︎ Berghain felt … ‘open’. That you could be whoever, without being looked at with an agenda; being able to just dance … I had never experienced that in Norway. And no rules. Except ‘no photos’, of course.
I: And when was this?
T: Berghain was right before my breakup … I escaped into this sphere. Actually, it was my 8 years younger sister that wanted to go the first time I went, and at that time I was not that into Techno. Let us say a lot of things changed those years … must have been 2015 or 2016. Of course, I had been clubbing before that, but at that exact point it really hit me. I found something liberating in there, being me, physical, dance. It has been an escape ever since. Too bad it is closed now, as everything else. They have been using it for exhibiting art while clubbing is down. But I would not even consider seeing that space as something else … to me that is blasphemy, hahaha.
- I: Another one by Blawan: ↗︎ Many Many Pings↗︎ (6:44 min; 2019)
- T: Hey-hey, my turn first. Or, I do two after yours? Que these, two harder ones I really like: ↗︎ Contact↗︎ , Fluxion (9:05 min; 2016) and ↗︎ Disaffected↗︎ , Function (7:39 min; 2008).
- I: I am still at Presence Of Another Man. Which track are you on?
- T: Well, yours, Blawan, so I have 4 in a row now: 2 from you, 2 from me. Just as the carnations.
— But let us jump back to clubbing, safer spacing, and queerness.
I: Establishing SAGA in Bergen, around 2019, was based on that we wanted to understand how to create a community for trans and non-binary people; an open platform that could be anything, really — a queer and trans melting point in Norway. We started doing things like planning a drum machine workshop. But still I wonder what makes a community. What I realise is that ‘the club’ has been what has created a community for me. I feel like having that ‘space’ is the most important, connecting and making a welcoming atmosphere. THE CLUB. I love workshops and learning and exchange knowledge. It is quite dreamy as well — that people come in to teach their skills to each other instead of getting wasted. But the club could be the same, in a way — if you want. Workshops is a tiny bit more corona safe at the moment, and also very intimate, but so is the club.
T: I think of ‘the club’ as a space of possibilities, or at least with the large potential being that. Music as well; unite people across ‘categories’. That is one of the things that I am really eager to get a glimpse of what you are thinking. First: community; what is that? We had this — ↗︎ we were both part of this seminar — discussing ‘safe spaces’. This is sort of a political approach though …
I: Unifying people is definitely central in all of this. Making it easier to unify and then becoming a community.
T: So, a safe space and the feeling of a community is a ‘space in flux’ — become something that ‘other places’ cannot …?
I: Comm-unity …
T: I like the word better when you say it like that.
I: Well, a safer space for me is where people are aware that the space is not safe and then doing their best to make it safer.
- (T: The Many Many Pings makes med crazy. I will skip it.)
T: ‘Comm-unity’ versus ‘community’; I am a nerd on etymology. The origins of words could be quite surprising, but also interesting to look at, like trans-. I think it is such a beautiful term, meaning ‘↗︎ across, beyond, through, on the other side of, to go beyond’, and so on. I went a bit more into the language related to ↗︎ that fanzine workshop SAGA did last week for Oktoberdans …
I: Excuse me. Restroom.
T: — Contact-contact: space of possibilities.
I: The description above seems very binary, so …
T: Hahaha. It is from a wordbook, though.
I: I would love to put it into a more nuanced context. [heart response]
— Yes, I feel like it would be fun to play around with it, for example not knowing the destination, just knowing that you are crossing —
T: I like …
I: — not being static.
T: Speaking about energy: I think I need a pizza. And a glass of ‘queer wine’, which it is often called karma*-vice. Wanna share? For the wine, ↗︎ Dinavolino, it is one of the most used wines, from the early beginning. [↗︎ More about Denavolo here, ↗︎ and La Stoppa is a true fave, too > Read!] This may sound weird, but a few years ago, one of the karma* persons, Liv, was ‘knighted’ during a hike in the forest, with tents, nice food, and proper glasses to drink from. Liv had the responsibility for the wine. And as this is a pretty funky and typical orange, although delicate, that made an impression. Sharing that by a lake …
— Very tropical, peachy, minerality too, and a bit like fresh apple juice. French farm … et cetera. Summer — no spring. April or May.
— What do you feel about the wine? (Cannot drink wine without discussing it. Karma* rule, at least one 1 sentence, please?)
I: Wine is lovely! Cannot really use many words to describe, but it is fresh and not overwhelming.
T: Think so, too. Rather … clay-ish, I think. Chalk, limestone, I will check … and apricot more than peach, perhaps. Mild, decent …
I: Yes, it is rather chalky. I thought that was a feeling but apparently it is a taste??? I thought it was like a touch, dryness … — And pizza is amazing, as always.
*** PIZZA ***
I: By the way, another thing I love about Techno: If I wanna share something, I either have to find it or make it. I never hum a great Techno track. And second: I have a confession; I am still looking for the track I thought about in the middle of the night.
T: I am trying to figure out the soil of the grapes.
- [It is beautiful calcareous soil. ‘↗︎ Calcareous is an adjective meaning “mostly or partly composed of calcium carbonate”, in other words, containing lime or being chalky. The term is used in a wide variety of scientific disciplines.’ Maybe I remembered from earlier, not sure, but you can really taste that, I think!] And music: this is a bit nervous, buy quite emotional also: ↗︎ Feel Rework↗︎ , Answer Code Request (7:07 min; 2015). I really enjoy working to this, think it is even touching — especially after 3 min, but will need the whole build up to get that travel …
— OK, back to the ‘not being static’. Please tell me more. How is this being implemented in what you are involved in, such as ↗︎ Transgender Awareness Week (TAW), and gender-neutral toilet signs. Speaking about that: The toilet sign here at Hoggorm is quite nice [photo below].
I: Hmm, yes, I feel like I am always looking for what is missing in what I already have, so it is hard to create a whole concept that is ‘complete’. It has been central to me that I am not able to represent the full spectrum — we all need to do that. So, creating something that more minds has been a part of making, ends up being different from the binary.
- ↗︎ River Red Gum↗︎ , Acronym (8:25 min; 2013)
- T: LOVE RIVER RED GUM [↗︎ Grinning Face with Big Eyes]
I: — As for the spectrum; the ever-expanding universe is not limiting. Like a toilet sign that says where to go instead of defining your shape even before you enter. Does that make sense? Like this toilet sign makes me so happy. [heart response]
- T: Dozzy og Tozzi in que: ↗︎ 12H.5 (Remix)↗︎ , Donato Dozzy (7:08 min; 2019); ↗︎ Binary Sunset↗︎ , Luigi Tozzi (7:10 min; 2017); ↗︎ Yavin 4, Luigi Tozzi (6:52 min; 2017)
- I: Yes, both.
I: I do not know where I am going with this, or the organisations or communities — there is still much to explore of how to cover what people seem to need to unify. Maybe it is just very simple — as for example using words such as love and connection. Which brings me back to music and clubs.
T: Easy and simple. But words are important.
I: Words are very important, indeed. I wonder if just meeting is enough, but then doing something and creating something tangible together. The community itself is not tangible, but one of the missions could be to create something that is.
T: Like what? I am curious what you put into it, ‘tangible’. First, we have to agree on the term so I can follow …
I: Something specific and known. Something that is understandable, not a void. So being in the unknown creating something that will be known. Not a set destination.
[MINUTES LATER]
T: … Where are you??
I: I was still looking for the track, to be honest — the track in my dream that kept me awake.
T: I was sort of expecting a long text here now. Please continue. (I think they play Jan Johansson, that dancing piano outside our headsets, while we listen to tech. You and your noise cancelling.)
I: Well, something like Transgender Awareness Week, it makes a whole lot of sense doing that now. There is a whole universe of gender that people do not know about — as well as complex emotions and ways of thinking about something that one may have thought is very set, like the gender binary. This is also very connected to safer spacing; just being aware and having empathy for other people and the challenges they might face.
T: And who is this for?
I: Everyone; it is both to build on the community and to connect people, as well as inform and educate.
T: But there is always this challenge, reaching people not already ‘in’. I find that tricky, but possible. How do you do that, like how do you work to achieve visibility and awareness and reach outside the echo?
- BTW, I am at Binary Sunset now. That was my way into Tozzi, it made me shiver when I heard it the first time, it is just going and going, circulating — becoming this evolving ‘ball’ … Then yours follow, the one with the strange name: ↗︎ This Hmming Raverie↗︎ , SHXCXCHCXSH (5:07 min; 2014)
I: Yes, in this way it is great that we collaborate with people and organisations that are not specifically made for the queer and trans communities. I think the essence is trying to be open. So many want to understand, but do not feel entitled to be there, enter that cultural and political space. It is a fine balance; giving and receiving information.
T: I hear you, to me that totally makes sense, but I also experience people from inside a ‘community’ not willing to open, that even they — unfortunately — think boxes … That is sort of a controversial thing to ask, but I read that as an actual struggle — from the inside as well. This duality between wanting to reach out and the lack of will to invite people in, see? And that is a choice. It is just interesting.
I: Yes, it is a struggle. And I see the duality, but I do not think I want to be a part of it. I am quite open to work with people that are not fully aware of for example challenges one could face as a transperson — but that really would like to help. I think that is beautiful and that it takes a lot of courage. I want to find ways they can do that without necessarily ‘becoming something else’. And meeting people where they are instead of telling them to be somewhere else. — I think this is a huge problem, that expectations are being made in a space that was supposed to be a place where one should be free.
T: ‘Queer enough’; ‘trans enough’ …
I: Exactly. And expectations for what people understand. It takes time to adjust and open our minds to new concepts, like for example a nuanced gender perspective.
T: Would you consider yourself a ‘radical liberalist’? You have a very open approach, is what I mean.
I: I am in constant change.
T: As opposed to ‘set’?
I: My opinions are never ‘set’, but in a way an approach can be, at least tangible. As I am thinking about it now, I constantly evolve the language to explain what I mean even further. My opinions might not change as much as the vocabulary.
T: Do you have any examples language vice?
I: I think this conversation could be an example. Going back in this exchange I use words such as queer, community, connection, and love. I try to use a rather simple language to express complicated matters, a language that I hope everyone can understand and identify with to some extent. And all words that changes to me all the time as I live, just like to all aliens.
- T: — Water sounds!
- I: I love water, and I think that Acronym song also has these ‘wet’ elements. I love those sounds.
- T: And this: ↗︎ Cycles↗︎ , Deepbass (7:22 min; 2016); underwater, bells and drops. I see you are in a flow. Making it easy for you: ↗︎ Superposition, Extrawelt (8:05 min; 2017)
- I: YES! Extrawelt.
- T: … I LOVE it.
I: — Haha, where did I go now. Aliens.
T: Started with aliens, too. Are we traveling towards ‘the end’?
I: It makes me question if it is right, and how much language I use. I do not know my own complexity. How could I? This is when alienation becomes interesting again: If I feel alien, would it be complex as in opposition to simplicity, or traveling towards a simpler way of being complex?
T: Alienation is always interesting, and what was alien is not necessarily that any longer, and vice versa. Alienation also changes, fluxing.
I: Yes. Are we headed towards a new project?
T: Always?
I: Always.
- T: But gotta hear the last one to round off with. It is quite poppy, but it means a lot to me. ↗︎ This Place Is Empty Without You↗︎ , Tigerskin (8:25 min; 2012) The point was: We always need people. And it is about love, too.
- I: I am listening to Extrawelt’s ↗︎ Punch The Dragon now. Then This Place […]
- T: What dragon … did you sneak in another track? No!!!
- I: Hahaha. I did.
- T: No more dragons. — I am finishing off after the tiger. Or, anything burning (apart from the wall)? TBC.
- I: Two more I wanna add: ↗︎ 50 Euro to Break Boost↗︎ ,↗︎ ↗︎ Skee Mask (5:07 min; 2018) and ↗︎ Waterfall↗︎ , Rrose (7:14 min; 2012)
- T: Let us save it for the sequel. The charm of TBC.
[NEXT DAY]
I: ‘Look! [Video of carnations] The green is just perfect. It looks very different at home.’
